Anne: You said you went to the States when you were three months old?
Ben: Yes.
Anne: So, obviously, you don't have any memories of that. But why did your
parents decide to take you?
Ben: Well, they decided to take me because of hardships here. My father
had already left to the United States. He was already working over there
when I was born. My brother was over, I had an older brother, but he left
to go work over there. Then, once I was born, he came back, gathered my
mother, my brother and I, and took us with him, back to Dallas, around the
outskirts of Dallas.
Ben: He was good with horses, so he was working at a horse stable, a
very prominent horse stable, that caters to most of the people around SMU,
or Southern Methodist University, that keep all their horses there. So,
mainly it was to give us a better life, because things are bad around that
little town. There's no opportunities.
Anne: And how did you learn English?
Ben: How did I learn English? English, when my father was working at
the horse stables of course I grew up around it because the owners of the
stables, they would talk to us in English and they would give us candies,
they would let us watch TV. But my father also had a tape recorder and he
had some English cassettes. And, when dad was at work, my mother would have
my brother and I sit there, and to us at first it was like a game, to be
able to punch the play and the rewind and all that. It did help and that's
the first actual learning encounter, as far as applying yourself to try to
learn, was that little recording machine.
Anne: So, you were playing this game with the tapes—
Ben: With the tapes and stuff and then later we started elementary
school and then once I started elementary school, it changed. Well my
mother had a rule, she goes, "No English inside of the house.” Before, it’s
“Speak English, speak English,” but once we started school, she goes, "I
don't want you all speaking English here inside the house” to me and my
brother. And we used to think that’s because she didn't understand, but it
was because she wanted us to practice the Spanish.
Ben: And when I would get home from school when I was going to
kindergarten—my brother would get out an hour later—I would get home and my
mother would give me these little comic magazines, Mexican comic magazines,
and she'd have me read them. And then she would make me write letters to my
grandmother. So that's how I was able to learn a little bit of, keep the
Spanish and English. But English I did, I went through elementary, middle
school, went to tenth grade in high school, then I dropped out of high
school to go help my father. He started a small construction business, but
then he got sick and he was hospitalized for three months.
Ben: And then after dad got better and went back to work, I still
stayed working there and then I need to go back to school. I didn't want to
go back and start and be behind the class. So, I became aware of the GED
program. So, I went and took the GED program, I didn't even study for it, I
just went and took it and passed it. And I started taking community college
courses before my classmates graduated [Laughing]. Already had a jump on
them!
Anne: That's great.
Ben: I thought it was too, but I still miss the graduation experience
and all that. I missed out on that, but regardless, I kept going and I just
went mainly into construction, stayed with drywall and did really well.
When I married Bena, I started a business of my own and it struggled at
first, but then I was persistent and everything just, it just changed from
one day to another. But it was really rough going at first; it was like
working, working and then this money comes in and then it goes all out. And
then finally, poof and from there everything changed.
Anne: So, when you were in high school, did you feel like just any other
American kid?
Ben: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yes, I felt normal, I had a lot of friends and our
high school, the high school I went to, there was very few Hispanics-
period, very few blacks. If you looked at that high school, if you pulled
it up—well actually they made them remove the confederate flag, because the
confederate flag was part of, it was the school football team logo and it
was on their helmets. They were called the Southland Prairie Warriors, and
when they ran out on the football field, they carried the confederate
flag—and the high school flew the confederate flag up with the Texas and US
flag—which it would make you think the opposite. I can't say that the
school was…Of course there were a few people, but I did okay. I didn't feel
out of place and I felt pretty well accepted by others.
Anne: And did your mom work too? Or just your dad?
Ben: My mom, she worked quite a bit, but there was a period when my
youngest sister was born, she ceased from working and she stayed home with
her for a few years. And then once—I think my sister was about four years
old—then she went back and started working again until we were doing good
in the construction. When I jumped into the construction and started my own
business, then my dad went to work for me. And when he went to work for me,
then my mother didn't have to work any more. We were really doing pretty
well, we did pretty well. Did a lot of construction projects all throughout
the Midwest and eastern seaboard. Lot of government projects.
Anne: Really?
Ben: Yeah. A lot of low-income housing for the government.
Anne: So, you moved around, it wasn't a local company that just stayed—
Ben: I based my company in Indianapolis and the main reason that we
ended up based in Indianapolis is that I had a project going on in Akron,
Ohio, one in Indianapolis and then I had two coming up in the Kansas
City—in both-- Kansas City, Missouri, Kansas City, Kansas. And I knew it
was going to be a lot of jumping around, and I figured well Indianapolis
will be right in the center. So, I rented an apartment there for me and my
wife and my son and my daughter; my son was a baby, but my daughter, she
was like four years old, or three years old.
Ben: And then right about after that, we bought a house. Well, no, my
wife wanted to enroll my daughter in pre-K to get her going because her
age. Her date of birth and the cut off with the school, they won't let her
in for regular elementary school. So, she found this church and she told
me, "There's this church that's got pre-K and we're going to get her
started there.” And I go, "Well okay, go ahead.” So, we enrolled her there
and we ended up getting involved with that church and we were the only
Hispanics at the church at the time, whenever we did it. But they were good
to us and they still attend there.
Ben: That church, they started building one year on, every year they
would add a year onto the school. And my daughter was one of the original
students. So, she's one of the original students. The first original
student to go all the way through the academy and graduate.
Anne: What's it called?
Ben: Cornerstone Baptist Academy in Indianapolis.
Anne: That's great.
Ben: Yeah.
Anne: So, you dropped out of high school to help with your dad because he
was sick and then you got your GED without studying.
Ben: Yeah.
Anne: And you then went to community college. The community college, the
courses that you took, were they designed to help you with your business?
Did you think about that?
Ben: Yes. The courses that I started taking were courses that I figured
would help me, not just in my business, but in personal wealth later. For
instance, I took business management, small business management, was one of
the courses that I focused on. And then the other course was psychology--
definitely something that I knew would help. Then real estate finance
because I figured later with accumulating some money I could invest in real
estate. Understanding real estate finance was a very very important factor
in me being able to grow my business later. I didn't know that at the time,
but later I purchased my first home and then we purchased a home up in
Indianapolis. And then when I hit a point where I needed to grow, I had the
opportunity to take bigger jobs and bigger contracts, I didn't have that
much capital to be able to take that much more on.
Ben: Well, come these home equity loans, finance pulled money out of
the house, take the property, rent it out to somebody to pay that, or lines
of credit and then we'd do a job, I'd get the money, pay that loan off, and
free that line of credit up later on. But apart from that, I did take all
the basic arts classes, English, algebra, I had some calculus and
trigonometry. I taught those at our private school, where my kids went to,
later as a substitute.
Anne: So, you were in Texas initially, is that where you got married?
Ben: Yes, in Texas.
Anne: Your wife. When did the business start blossoming to help you move
out of Texas?
Ben: The business started blossoming when we were in Texas. I had told
my wife to give me…Within five years we'll have a house and we'll both have
good vehicles, dependable vehicles, but it's going to take a while. Well
within a year and a half from when I started, we bought out first house and
we both had good, dependable vehicles. However, it was still tight when I
took a project on in Akron, Ohio. And when I took that project on, I did
not want to go up there for many reasons. One, because I had this
immigration issue on me and I'm going near the Canadian border. Another, I
didn't really want to be away from my family.
Ben: But when these customers get persistent, "What's it going to take?
What's it going to take?" And I said, "It's just out of the question. I
can't go up there, I got all these jobs going on. Plus, I got bad
equipment, my equipment’s old and if my equipment breaks down up there, I'm
not going to be able to meet the schedules and we're all going to be in
trouble.” "Is that it? Really?" The last price he had upped the price of
what the contract was to pay, and the pay was fine. I had other reasons why
I didn't want to go. Well when he says, "I'll throw in a brand-new texture
machine on top of it, but I'll sign off on the paperwork after you complete
the project.” And I go, "You'll do that?" "I'll do that and when have you
known me to not keep my word?" And I go, "Done deal.”
Ben: One of those texture machines, the price tag at that time was
about $30,000. Right now, it's probably closer to $40,000 because we're
talking about 1996. And he followed through, I came up to Akron, when I got
up to Akron though, they had projects, there were projects everywhere,
Kentucky, Michigan. And the pay, the pay was awesome. And that is where it
really, within I think about the second month that I was up north, it just
completely changed.
Ben: But I hadn't seen my wife and children since I had taken off up
there. So, I told her to come up there and visit and I started discuss with
her. I go, "Look these other jobs,” and I had already said I was going to
take them, but I didn't tell her that. I told her, she says, "What if you
go to be traveling?" I go, "It's worth it to be traveling back and forth,
but I'm not going to be traveling back and forth. We're going to just take
the kids; we're going to move up here and we're going to be together".
Ben: And so that's when I moved them to Indianapolis. We stationed in
Indianapolis although I did travel quite a bit. I was on the road quite a
bit because I had later ended up with jobs as far down as Orlando, Florida.
And I ended up in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina to repair a bunch of
apartments which we had worked on before. But it was a pretty wild ride,
but we really were doing really well, and it was really amazing.
Anne: Yeah. So, in Texas, you couldn't get a license, could you?
Ben: I had a license, I did.
Anne: So how did you get it?
Ben: Well, the thing is that I had, when I was 19 I had a brush with
the law and I took care of it, but then ICE came looking for me, they
didn't pick me up or arrest me, but since they came looking for me, they
left their card there. And so, I voluntarily went in, but I knew something
happened, so I grabbed my driver's license, my social security card and I
tucked it away. So, I go into the offices and immediately they put me on a
pretty high, outrageous bond and—
Anne: When you were 19?
Ben: No, 19 is when I got in trouble. They came back looking for me, I
was already what? I think I was 27, going on, 27, 28.
Anne: Oh wow.
Ben: And so, I go to the immigration office in Dallas and I went in and
then there they told me I was under arrest and then they shipped me to
Lorado. And I go before a judge in Lorado, and I go to fight this. I'm
going to have to sit here two years or pay $50,000 bond. And I go, "No,” so
I just told the judge. I had an attorney, we had hired an attorney, but the
attorney, I knew he was just wanting to. I probably could've, maybe it was
a mistake, we could've won. But I did not want to sit there for two years
at a young age, two years and then at the end, maybe nothing.
Anne: Yeah.
Ben: I didn't want to waste two years. So, they deported me, I asked
the judge to sign, and I signed and that same evening I was on the bus to
Lorado, caught a bus to Saltillo, , and then this was a day before
Thanksgiving, when I arrived in Mexico. And then I stayed there in Saltillo
up through December, through Christmas. Christmas my parents came to visit,
and my girlfriend had come to visit too, my girlfriend had come to visit
around Christmas and then they left.
Anne: They were all citizens?
Ben: Yeah. And then we had plans to get married and my girlfriend, she
was willing to come live here, give everything up in the states and live
here, even though she's a citizen. So, I said, "Well if you really feel
strongly then come on.” So, she came to Mexico and when she arrived here in
Mexico, I went to pick her up at the border, she came on the bus right
across from Eagle Path. So, I met her there and then brought her back to my
family's house.
Ben: Then we get there and we're there—and then my parents had arrived
there too—and she goes, "When are we heading back?" because she thought we
were going to Saltillo, because I told her it's a big city, better
opportunities there. I go, "Oh we're not going to Saltillo.” She goes,
"Well where are we going?" I go, "You think I'm going to sit here and years
later we're going to be worried about our kids, where they're at, because
you know they're not going to stay put here. They're going to jump that
border.” And I go, "So what are we going to do?" "Well I'm going to take
that risk right now, I'm going to jump it right now.” She goes, "No you
can't.” I go, "You watch me. Let's go, we're leaving tomorrow".
Ben: And so, we left, and we went to Acuña across from Del Rio (Texas)
and then, "No, just wait for me across the bridge. I'll be right there.”
So, "No, no no.” So, I got a taxicab straight across the bridge. But I had
already had my Texas driver's license and social security card brought to
me in case they questioned me, then I could say, "US.” And that's all I
did, just told them I was a US citizen, they just…It wasn't like it is
right now. Right now, even a US citizen is going to have trouble getting
across the bridge [Laughs].
Ben: But over twenty, 22-23 years.
Anne: 23 years? And were you worried about getting deported those 23 years?
Ben: Right after my daughter was born, yes, every day, the thought
would cross my mind. I had many brushes with Immigration, as we're in the
construction business. Many times, job sites would get raided and the only
thing was just to keep cool and walk straight up to them. Don't walk away
from them, if I seen them walking this way, I walked towards them instead
of walking away from them. I walked towards them.
Anne: So, they probably, you being the head guy, they didn't think of you
as much—
Ben: No, but during the raids I don't think they had any idea of who
was the head guy or not.
Anne: Oh.
Ben: Because a lot of the times, a lot of these raids, I was all
covered in drywall, compound, white compound all over me, almost like if
you got paint all over me. But I just wouldn't…I would just walk right up
to them. And there was another gentleman—this was amazing because he didn't
speak English. And there was three times these raids that Immigration come
up and you're talking about over 10-11 people just scatter. He would never
run; he would stay put. And one time he was up on a scaffold and
immigration officer, it was one vehicle pulls up front and just one
officer, I knew that everybody else were all around in the back because
there was a big old wall.
Anne: Yeah.
Ben: And so, he finally gets out and comes inside the house and he
walks right past me and that happened a couple times where they would just
walk right past me, didn't even acknowledge that I was even there, nothing.
I go, "Is God making me invisible?" [Chuckle]. It really felt like that
because this time he didn't even acknowledge me, just walked right past me.
He didn't see me. Anyhow, he walks up to this other person, he's on the
scaffold and he goes, "[Spanish 00:27:11] papels hombre?” and from up there
he goes, "Yeah.” And pulls out his wallet, left him alone. Walked away.
Ben: And it was three times with that one person. And then after that
last time that I was with him that happened, he goes, "Look at that,
they're taking all these poor guys that don't want to go. I want to go
back, I want a free ride back. But they don't want to take me.” And I spoke
to a cousin of his, it’s probably been about three years ago, and I asked
him about him, and he says, "To this day, he don't have his residency, he
never got his papers.” He's living in Atlanta now by the way, or he was
when I talked to his cousin. His cousin goes, "He's in Atlanta, but to this
day he never got his papers and he's never been deported.” And I go, "Some
people are lucky and some are not".
Anne: So, you built your company, your wife was a US citizen?
Ben: Yes.
Anne: And your two children?
Ben: U.S. citizens.
Anne: U.S. citizens and you sort of had a really nice middle-class life,
right?
Ben: Yes. Real nice life. And my children, they didn't know that I was
illegal until it happened. And we had…Well there was a reason why we didn't
want them knowing because children can tell others. And then also they just
wouldn't understand. When they were a little bit older, like my son in
junior high and my daughter barely starting high school, do you remember
when Lou Dobbs went off on his rant? On CNN, when he started all that. When
Lou Dobbs started ranting, it was like every day on TV, the other school
children were talking about illegal ladies and this and this. And one day I
got home and my wife, the kids were already in bed, and she told me, "You
know what? Vanessa came up and asked me if any of our relatives were
illegal aliens.” And I told her, "Probably about time we started explaining
some things to her.” She goes, "No, with our relatives yes, but as far as
you, no. You can't"
Ben: So, we didn't. And it was just, once they did find out, I really
don't know, I'm really not sure how they really feel. But it had to be—
Anne: They didn't find out until you actually—
Ben: Yes.
Anne: And they're adults now? Or young adults?
Ben: Yes. And my daughter, I know it had to move her because after my
daughter, this is her graduating from Indiana University with honors, very
decorated.
Anne: Beautiful.
Ben: Her major is paralegal studies. She's still studying, she wants a
law degree.
Anne: That's great.
Ben: And she did her internship at the Marian County prosecutor’s
office. She graduated and upon graduation—well before she even
graduated—she had secured a job. She's got a job, she's got her first job,
right now she's a paralegal for immigration family law.
Anne: Oh wow. Wow.
Ben: So, I guess it has something—
Anne: Sure.
Ben: My son, just barely last week he went to get settled. He was going
to IUP [Indiana University of Pennsylvania] in Indianapolis, but he just
got the Disney scholarship and it's a full scholarship, so room, board
everything. And he just got settled last week in Orlando. So, he's going to
be there for a little while.
Anne: And what school does that go for?
Ben: I'm not exactly sure, some university there in Orlando. I haven't
had a lot of contact since…They were busy over there, when they were over
there, I was busy heading this way.
Anne: So, what happened? What happened to bring you to detention and
deportation?
Ben: Well, this last issue had to do with labor. I was used to these
labor department investigations and this last few really started getting
more intense though. I kind of think that it took a stronger turn with the
Obama administration, to focus on these contracts and make sure that all
the criteria in these prevailing wage jobs were really fulfilled to the T.
Anne: So, for the federal contractors?
Ben: Yes. And I'm an illegal alien, but you can look me up in the
Michigan records. And I'm registered there as a preferred government
contractor. I did well over 200,000 units and for Amtrak, which is in a bad
area of Detroit, and around other parts of Detroit, Wayne town. But there,
Indiana and Ohio, Florida and Mississippi, Texas, I was a preferred
government contractor. And did they know I was illegal? Damn right they
did.
Anne: They did?
Ben: I know they did. There's no way that they couldn't have known. Did
they care? No. They just needed their job done.
Anne: Yeah.
Ben: At the end, I think they still didn't care but I think the heat
got turned up and they started—
Anne: That's all you can think of?
Ben: That's all I can do. But I'm still grateful I did very well and my
family's not hurting. If I felt that they were hurting, I would risk it all
and head back. But, they're comfortable, they're doing well. And I think,
well I feel that I set a standard for them, to strive to be more, to strive
because they all had, including my wife, when we married she was kind of
shy and her self-esteem—not that she had low self-esteem—but she really
didn't believe that much in herself. But right now, she's shining, she's
doing really well, and she's holding it together for both kids at that age
to still be living with her, other than my son right now in college, that
he went, that's to say a lot for two parents. But for a single parent, you
gotta hand it to her.
Anne: And when were you detained? How long ago?
Ben: It's been about a year and a half ago, yeah.
Anne: And you fought it for a year and a half?
Ben: No, no, no. No, no. I had gotten, I was in, it was about six
months and then I got shipped over to Matamoras and I was at my family's
house, my family has a house here on the border.
Anne: I see.
Ben: I mean it's a nice house. It's up in the mountains and I had a lot
of family members, including my wife go, "Why are you leaving? Why are you
going to Mexico City? You don't need to.” I go, "Well one I'm going, I want
to be involved in helping these people. I gotta go out and do something, I
know I can still do something, I need a job. I need a job, I need a real
job.” Raising goats and sheep is fine and it was common people and stuff,
but I'm a busy body and I need to do something.
Ben: And then I became aware of New Comienzos and when I seen that,
that's what I want to do. I want to go down there, I want to be involved in
that. I want to be involved in that because that's something that I know I
can help and contribute to. And at the same time, I can get me a job down
there and I'll stay put. I'll come back and visit every now and then, but
I'm a city person [Laughs].
Anne: Yeah. So, did you fight the detention or no?
Ben: No. When my first, I was detained when I was 19—well no, I got in
trouble when I was 19, detained at 27. That time, I signed away, I didn't
fight it. So, this time, I had no rights. I could not fight anymore because
I'd already signed away. This time around, I probably would've fought it,
because I had the money this time. Even if I knew I was going to lose, at
least I knew I had the money for the bond and I could put it off two,
three, four years. But, the first time I didn't have the money. So, I said,
“Sit here two years and wait and then probably get deported? No.”
Unfortunately, this time, I just, there was no rights that I could—
Anne: And have your kids or your wife been to visit you?
Ben: Yes, they have up there. Hopefully once I get settled here. My
wife was supposed to come here in May, like around my birthday, which was
the week before last. But when my son got this scholarship, well he said,
"We gotta go,” so her and my daughter both drove him down to Orlando and
they went to Disney, like we used to always go to Disney World. We would go
at least twice a year. There was one year that I had two projects that ran
over a year down there and I bought them season passes, because it was
easier for them to fly down on the weekend and come see me. And when they
come down, if you buy three individual park tickets, it's more expensive
then the season pass.
Anne: Yeah.
Ben: But they're still keeping up the traditions [Laughs]. They're
still going to Disney.
Anne: And you spent a lot of time volunteering while you were in the
states.
Ben: Yes.
Anne: So, it seems like, does that make it a good fit to try it here?
Ben: Oh yes. Yes, it's voluntary here, it's a different theme here.
It's a stronger, I feel it's a stronger theme. Not that my volunteer work
back over there wasn't, but my volunteer… Like helping out at the school
whenever I was in town, I would let them know that I would be in town and I
was available to substitute if one of the teachers needed a break or was
going to be missing. And I was qualified to take the classes on.
Ben: But I also was a volunteer English teacher when they started, they
started a Spanish church. When that Spanish church started, it was actually
my father that was the preacher. My father was at another church, but when
they wanted to do that, I talked to my father to see if he would, because
they asked me to, but I was honest, I go, "You know I'm not that
knowledgeable of the Bible, to be able to. I don't want to stumble over
myself.” And you know when people are barely getting into a church and you
say one thing but then you contradict yourself, you're going to destroy
their faith.
Anne: Don't want to do that.
Ben: No. And I did a lot of volunteer work there at the church and the
school. It was great. And they've been right by my family's side, they're
still going to church there and anytime that they need anything, they're
right there. But good thing …. they've been fine. My wife, she's got a
pretty good job. She worked for a mortgage company, so she does pretty
well. And my daughter helps out too now that she's making money. It's been
a long ride. [Laughs].
Anne: So, we hear a lot of stories about young men who come over as babies
or toddlers and then for some reason get caught up in gangs or crime. What
was different for you? Why do you think that never happened?
Ben: Well, I can tell you that I think, probably the single most
important thing, the most important thing in a person's life is
environment. Parenting is important, but you can have the best parents in
the world, but if you have them in a bad environment, your parenting is not
going to supersede the environment. And that's one of the things that I
focus with my wife is that—well my parents, they provided a good
environment. And when I got married from my life experiences, I stepped
that up a bit. I told a lot of other relatives, this is one thing I've told
a lot of other relatives, this happens a lot in America—not just with
Mexicans or Central Americans, Blacks or whatever—is a lot of people yell
out racism or discrimination.
Ben: And I sincerely believe that sometimes we discriminate ourselves,
that we put it on ourselves, because we teach that to our children, because
weekends we all want to go get together with other relatives, other friends
of our own ethnicity. And that's not really what America's about and that's
not what I taught my children because that's not how I lived my life. I was
out with everybody, congregating with everybody, and that's the environment
that we brought our children up in. We brought them up in their church—I
was talking to you earlier, our church and the school that they went to was
part of the church. We were the only Hispanics.
Ben: But that doesn't mean that we didn't allow them or try to get them
to forget who they were. We didn't, because we brought them around our
relatives, but we let them see that environment and so that they felt
comfortable. So, when they got out into the world, they're comfortable
around anybody and they're not looking at colors or whatever. And they
don't feel like they're different and they don't feel different. I
honestly, I think I felt more different when I got back here [Laughs].
Anne: Right.
Ben: Because it was really kind of weird. But over there I didn't, but
I think environment is one of the most important things. If you put a good
person in a bad situation, in a bad environment, sooner or later he'll
break. If you get a bad person that's never known what life is really
supposed to be about, guide him a little bit and give him a little time,
and if he's willing—
Anne: It might work out.
Ben: Yeah, it might work out.
Anne: Interesting. So, you achieved your dreams in America.
Ben: Oh yeah.
Anne: Do you have dreams now for yourself here?
Ben: Yeah. My dream here is, one, to help here and I can't say it's a
goal that's going to be met. And the other is I'm going to have here what I
had over there and I'm confident that I can make that happen.
Anne: And will you make it through construction business, or will you make
it through…?
Ben: Right now, I think that there's other areas here that I could
probably succeed in without jumping into the construction business. We have
land back here (in the family home) and a buy little bit of cattle, make
some money here. There’s just several different ideas. But I know that I
can excel in a job here, because there's several people here that are
making some pretty high incomes and just, some pretty much as
telemarketers, but just there's some call centers with some good bonuses.
You're not going to get rich there, but you can make a good living.
Anne: Right.
Ben: But there's some opportunities right now.
Anne: What do you think the Mexican government should be doing to better
integrate return migrants?
Ben: Well, I think that there should be a program where returning
migrant…Well, one, there should be at least some type of assistance, get
them a bus ticket and some type of cash, to get him back to his place of
origin. Job opportunities, some type of government incentive for employers
to hire new arrivals.
Ben: Some type of, I want to say grants, there should be some type of
assistance to help, some type of temporary housing assistance, maybe in
monetary assistance or vouchers, something. Not just dumping. One of the
things that's causing a lot of crime right along the border is you take
1,000 people a day and dump them, right there on the border and they don't
have no food, they don't have nothing. And these gangs come along, they
have an endless army supply, they can supply their armies and never run out
of people as long as they're dumping people right there. Because you're
dumping people there with no money, no food, nowhere to go. There's
shelters, but them shelters are full.
Anne: Yeah.
Ben: Them shelters can't possibly hold all them people, they can't. And
so, all these people running around—they're running around the monument
right now—laying there around. I see them laying around, the same people
laying on the streets. But here in Mexico City, it's not that bad. You go
to the border and the border cities where all along the Texas border, those
are main dumping grounds for ICE [Immigration and Customs Enforcement]. All
these border detentions that are on the border states, they're daily buses
are driving and dumping people off. Detentions from up north, they wait
until they fill up a plane, or planes, then they ship them. But here, they
catch. It's every day they're dumping people. And there’s gotta be
something done about that. I think that there's assistance for just about
any and everything else. I do think that it would be in the best interest
of the government to assist deportees that are coming back. It would
probably save them a lot of money—it'd probably save them more to get them
home and give them a little bit of cash, give them a bus ticket home to
where they're from, and it would be a lot less expensive than all the chaos
that's going on right now.
Anne: Seems that the US also has really ignored the whole problem, the
families that they're breaking up.
Ben: Yeah.
Anne: You've thought about that, in terms of US policy, ways that they can
eliminate the hardship that your family is going through because you're
here?
Ben: Yeah.
Anne: I mean not just the financial, emotional but everything. And it seems
like it’s not even in the equation.
Ben: Yes, that's true, that's not even in the equation. [Pause]. That's
tough. But yes, I think [Pause] that [Pause] they're not looking at
individual cases when looking at this immigration issue. I mean if they
really, if the immigration person were really doing their job, then the
judge did his job and really take the time to look at each individual case,
some of these separations wouldn't happen. But they're not doing that, to
me they're just trying to pile up numbers. I know many a case where…Just an
example, one gentleman, taking care of his family, has residency, he's a
legal resident. One DWI and it's over with, he's gone.
Anne: He's a legal resident?
Ben: A legal resident. One DWI and that's it, he's gone. And I've known
of others that had up to three and they're still there. I know some that
have felonies and they're still there. Then one DWI, that's not being fair.
The biggest injustice I think is going after all these Dreamers and using
the information that they filled out on their DACA paperwork to go track
them down. I agree that there has to be some type of people should be
picked up, but they're not chasing those people. They're going for the easy
numbers because, you know what? Those guys they don't have paperwork where
they can go pick them up, they’re not going to school here, going there.
It's harder to catch them, so you know what? We can drum up 10-15,000
people right here, beef our numbers up. We got the addresses, let's just go
get them.
Ben: And that's kind of what they're doing, not really doing their job.
Just to say that “We're doing something.” With 9/11, I remember that they,
within the first few days, 20 something hundred arrests that they were
attributing as terrorist arrests. But you know who they were picking up?
They were picking up Mexicans most of them. It was not 20 something hundred
Middle Easterners. But regardless, they were numbers. They had to show that
they were doing something. But that's that [Chuckles].
Ben: The US, there's a lot that they could be doing, because they can
deport 100,000, but they know they gotta replace those 100,000 for the
workforce. One thing I know is I know the ins and outs of labor in the US.
That is one thing that I do know. And I do know that there's unwritten
policies that look the other way, look the other way while we get this
done. We need this done, look the other way. Hurricane Katrina was one, we
had immigration, immigration was about the only police patrolling the area
at the time and they weren't bothering anybody—it was hands off until they
get this cleaned up. And once all the toxic clean-up was out of the way,
then they started to enforce, but still not full force again.
Ben: So, there's a lot to the government, part to blame there. Instead
of locking them up, they should really create some type of labor program.
Anne: People can come and go.
Ben: People can come, instead of coming across and, to me, instead of
somebody going to work over there and pay $6,000 to a coyote, they could
pay $1,500 at a processing center to apply and get placed in a job by the
US government legally. But you know what? US government don't wanna do
that, because they want to keep them costs down. And so, does private
business, they need to keep them costs down. It's like, would you like to
pay $30 for a Big Mac? [Laughs].
Anne: You’re saying that McDonald's is just using a lot of undocumented and
paying them really?
Ben: Well the whole concept of migrant labor, the migrant labor force,
is to keep the cost of products down and housing as well. If it wasn't for
migrant labor and this underground labor networks that are operating, a
$250,000 house would've probably cost you a million. And a lot of people
wouldn't be able to, a lot of people can't afford a $200,000 house
[Chuckles].
Anne: No. Well I thank you very much.
Ben: Thank you all for coming, coming to help us out and spread the
news.
Anne: You’ve probably been asked this question, but do you consider
yourself an American? A Mexican?
Ben: You know, honestly deep inside, American. That's how I've always
felt. But right now, after this happened, it's like have you ever, there
was a book called The Man with No Country, are you familiar with that?
Anne: Yeah.
Ben: That's, when I was deported, that's the first thing that, that's
what came to my mind, The Man with No Country, not here, not there, not
accepted here, not accepted over there. And when I got here it's like, no
paperwork, no drivers, no identification, and I had a harder time getting a
driver's license, getting my voter registration—which is the main source of
ID here—the toughest time here then I did getting ID in the United States.
And I was illegal in the United States and I was able to, anything I
needed, I could get over there. And here, I'm here, I had a hard time. It
took me a few months.
Anne: It's really too bad.
Ben: Yeah. Kind of rough. I don't know if it had been easier here, in
the big city, but over there it was pretty rough, hard getting around.
Anne: Well, I wish you the best of luck.
Ben: Oh, thank you—
Anne: I think that you're, you think you're going to be fine, so I think
you're going to be fine. And you must be very proud of your family, they
seem really great.
Ben: Oh, I am, they're going, they're moving forward, that was the
purpose of heading that way.
