Anita: I want to hear, first of all, why you migrated? Why did you go to
the states? How old were you?


Ruben: 5 or 4. We migrated because of the money situation that we had. We
had what I remember as a pretty low income. My dad couldn't keep a stable
job. He would actually work in the mornings and in the afternoons he would
be fixing neighbors cars, their toilet, their shower head, their sinks,
paint houses, but it wasn't enough. So we didn't actually come together.
They came to the United States, were there for nine months, saved up some
money, and then they came back and got me and my sister. They went over
there, worked, saved money, and then they came back for us and that's when
we landed on 59th and Vermont.


Anita: Who were you living with when they were away?


Ruben: My grandparents.


Anita: In Mexico city?


Ruben: Mm-hmm (affirmative) They were taking care of us. Me and my sister.
Yeah.


Anita: Was it hard to leave them?


Ruben: Yeah. They were really strict. They were the types of people that
you couldn't put... if you were eating at the table, you couldn't put your
elbows on the table. You couldn't speak at the table. They'd wake you up at
4:30 in the morning so you can shower.


Ruben: But I mean they treat us good. It was just little things that you
know, kids don't like, but my mom, she had a daughter, her name was
Gabriela, she was about nine months, but when she was born, she couldn't
breathe that good. And one of the female doctors left her in the night with
a baby bottle in her mouth. So she basically choked on the milk. She died.
She passed away in the hospital and my mom went crazy and she scratched the
doctor's face. So she figured that they were going to look for her. And my
dad left, went and saved money, then they came back and picked us up.


Anita: So they left after your sister died?


Ruben: Yeah. She would've been right now, 35.


Anita: How much younger than you?


Ruben : Probably like four years.


Anita: Four years.


Ruben: My other sister right now is 31.


Anita: So your sister, is she still in the states, the 31year old?


Ruben: Yeah, the younger one. Yeah. She's still there.


Anita: So did you like living with your grandparents or not?


Ruben: Yes and no. Well, I mean, you know, yes because they would actually,
showed us some good ways to become a good person. You know, I've seen right
here in Mexico that if you're in a bus and an old lady comes up in a bus,
they won't give her the seat and you know, they'll act like they're asleep.
They showed us to, to respect our elders. They showed us a lot of good
stuff, and they never mistreated us like hit us or spank us or pulled our
hair. None of that. But I liked it. My sister didn't like it. She wanted to
be with my mom. But when my mom came and we were leaving, my grandpa didn't
want us to leave. You know, we had become like his kids. That's where my
mom actually came to pick us up. She even gave us the choice. Do you want
to stay? You can stay. She was like, you want to go with me? We're going to
go back to the United States. So I had like two days to think about it and
it was hard because my grandpa, he loved me a lot. He would take me to, he
had like a little ranch and he would have fun with me because he would tell
me to grab... By 12 he said you should have two chickens. It was two
o'clock in the afternoon. I still didn't have one, but you know, he taught
me how to cut the corn.


Ruben: Well he had such a big ranch. He had everything there. He didn't
have to buy any vegetables. He had peas, he had cows, he had chickens, he
had everything. And he would always make sure school was a priority. He
would always tell us that no matter what your school is your priority, you
got to finish, you got to graduate. And he was into that political stuff so
he wanted me to be like that. And he would take me to his reunions. We
would make about 600 sandwiches and give them to the people that will come
and you know, hear him speak.


Anita: But he was a politician?


Ruben: Yeah, I don't remember what it was, but I remember he used to take
me to the reunions and I would be passing out the sandwiches while he'll be
up in the stand speaking to the people and all of that I liked, you know,
waking up at 4:30 in the morning I did not like. But I had two days to
think about it and at the end I was like, no, I'm going to go with my mom.


Ruben: He was like, "don't worry". He was like, "I mean, that's your mom."
Right? But he was like, "I don't want you to leave." It was hard for him,
for me too. But my sister, she was like, "No I want to go with my mom." But
that's when we actually came over there.


Anita: How'd you cross the border?


Ruben: We took a bus all the way to TJ (Tijuana), and we were there for
like two days and then they crossed us through Tijuana. Like a little
mountain. There was like a little mountain where you hike, go down and then
you come down to where they have a bunch of horses or whatever. What is
that thing called? Like a stable? where they have horses?


Anita: A corral?


Ruben: Yeah. Like they have like a bunch of them lined up. And I didn't
know there were horses. We were running, I was making noise and all of a
sudden they all started making noise at the same time, like telling the
owner, you know, there's somebody in here. We were hiking through a little
ranch.


Ruben: We hiked for at least five hours. My dad was carrying my sister and
I was grabbing onto my mom's hand. Once we landed after these horses, we
had to cross a freeway. This is at five in the morning or there's a lot of
traffic and I didn't want to cross it. I was scared. I said, no man, they
are going to run us over. But we finally crossed, came to a place near the
border. That's where they had us for like a day. After that they actually
transported us to Anaheim. In Anaheim, the people that had us there were
really nice but they still had two people with guns, in case you wanted to
run. We're there, they'll feed us and then that's when they start making
calls. We contacted my madrina (godmother) and she was like, "I live in LA.
Tell him to bring you guys here." And they took us there. I remember they
were charging $750 a person. It was like $400 for kids at that time.


Anita: What year was this?


Ruben: 86. And that's where we landed in LA, around 59th street. Right
before the Rodney King riot. It was like a few years. Well I think like six
years before that.


Anita: Do you remember your first day in LA?


Ruben: Yeah, they took me to a... they had these little swap meets close.
Swap meets. I remember they took me there and they bought me clothes,
pants, shoes. They knew that I liked playing on the little machines, so
they gave me coins. They were there with me. Like my madrina, she's like
another mother. While my mom and my dad would be working, she would take
care of me and I actually called her mom as well. My mom didn't like it,
but she's the one that actually paid for us to stay. And then once we got
on our feet, we moved to another part of LA near Bell Gardens. I started
going to school there and we used to live in a garage and I didn't like
living in the garage cause I was like, "isn't this for a car?" My mom would
be like, "yeah, but we're only going to be here for a few months."


Ruben: And three years later we moved to Whittier, which was an area where
there were no poor people. It was medium class and high class and there
were rich people and medium class people. And we lived there for a while.
But at that time I had already learned a few words in English. I could
speak to somebody, but in the beginning it was frustrating because I
couldn't say, "Hey, can I borrow your pencil?" I will do it with signs,
like if I had a pencil in my hand. And in between that we lived in
Englewood for about nine months and it was actually not that bad because
the African American people there, they didn't discriminate against us,
they would try to teach you. How to speak, you know. Ask them stuff or
like, they would come and tell me if I wanted to play, and I would be like,
"huh?" And they would be like, "You know on your bike? You know your
helmet? Let’s go."


Anita: Earlier you alluded to the Rodney King riots. So tell me, how old
were you and what it was like


Ruben: When was this, in '90... I was in between what, 11 and 12? And it
was an experience, not expected, but as a kid, you see too much violence,
and cops hitting people, helicopters putting everything on live on TV. It
was scary. It was like the whole world was just like going crazy. And at
the time being, there were only a few lettings up in that area. African
American people were actually just going crazy, opening the stores,
stealing stuff, and being really violent because you actually, the next day
you can find safety bags from the banks and that's kind of heavy stuff. It
was an experience that actually left a shock for like maybe nine months, it
took us to recover from that. We didn't want to go to school. We thought
they were going to hit us.


Anita: The rioters?


Ruben: Yeah. And it was just something really, really, really for us,
scary. We had just got to LA, from San Diego so basically we tried to
understand the situation. We didn't really know what was going on. We just
knew it was in between cops and African American people. So it was
difficult for us to go to school because we figured they either going to
get us on the way or on the way back. You can hear people saying, "Go get
food because there's not going to be no food for a long time." We actually
never really went into no store, nothing. We just waited until it was over.
Find out what was going on. A lot of people would say, "Stay inside." You
see cars crashing into the gates of stores, just to get them open. Payless
Shoes, I remember we had a Payless Shoes and they lit it up on fire. So it
looked like a big ball of fire.


Ruben: Payless Shoes, it used to be a store of shoes that were real, real
cheap.


Ruben: Maybe I would say well like $3, in between three and 10. It was just
something that I can, if I just close my eyes you can actually imagine
exactly everything, how it was happening, even though it's been years.


Anita: Things got difficult for you guys after that, right?


Ruben: Yes, it actually did. I mean, as it was we were low income and with
that situation it actually got difficult for my dad to keep going to work.


Anita: Isn't it after that that they started deporting people.


Ruben: Yeah, actually, they started deporting people at the time. My
parents got lucky because they had been over there for a minute and they
basically had records and they applied and they actually got their permit
to be there. I remember my little sister was like three years old. She was
really scared. She was scared and at the same time, she will say, "Go get
me a game, go get me a game." Something to keep her busy.


Anita: So did the police get tougher on you guys after that?


Ruben: Well, it actually got tough on everybody, on the whole community
around there because it was more African American people. But with us it
will be only with certain people.


Anita: Yeah.


Ruben: They will stop people to see if they got a driver's license. I
remember there was no transportation for a couple of days. So my dad had to
work, I mean had to walk from two in the morning till five to get to work,
and at night he will get home at 12 at night. Because he had two jobs. But
we lived through it. We became a little stronger and stronger minded but
took us like around nine months.


Anita: How do you feel about African Americans?


Ruben: Basically, I'm not really racist, you know.


Anita: Yeah.


Ruben: I mean my best friend is actually African-America. At school it was
different because they would bully us, they will try to say the bench was
theirs. Don't sit there, you cannot sit nowhere. We couldn’t understand all
the bad words they will say to us, but we never really pay attention to
them. We just try to go day by day.


Anita: But could you understand why they were the riots? Did you sympathize
with Rodney King or did you feel like this was crazy?


Ruben: At the time we just thought, everybody was just going crazy and my
mom was like, "Don't go out, they might hurt us." But we still, we really,
kind of curious though, but I never got anything against them. I actually
understood when basically you see the news, when they explaining, I
understood their anger, but we thought that was not the way to solve it.


Anita: You were part of a gang. Why do you think kids like you end up in
gangs?


Ruben: There's three things that I have noticed why we get involved. Well
the first one will be we're Latin, we're Mexican. So, cops don't pick
people. Cops, they actually just go directly to you, and they start poking
you and poking you saying, "What are you doing? What do you have in your
pockets? Take everything out of your pockets, put your hands on your head."
For somebody that is not involved in a gang, or at least with kids that are
doing something bad, it's something that gives you anger. Not hate towards
the cops, because they are actually doing their job, but why you picked me
when you just saw the other guy going by and he looks more dangerous than I
do?


So, Mexican kids get poked on by the cops. So, you start growing some type
of anger like, "Why me? Okay, you want to see me like that?" Because with
me, all it took it was six months. When I got to Whittier, California,
there was an officer there. His last name was Fuentes. He was Mexican. I
don't know if he wanted to show off for his coworkers or the rest of the
cops, but he will always, always stop me. Even if I was with my mom, he
would get me off the car and search me. I don't think that was legal. But
at the same time, I wasn't legal.


Anita: How old were you?


Ruben: I was 11 and 12 when he kept harassing me, harassing me, harassing
me. When he saw that I became a gang member, I mean, he saw a whole
different person. When I was 14, he came to me and he apologized. He said,
"I should've never picked on you. I think I made you the person you are
now." I said, "Look, everybody has a choice and I made one." I said, "I
became a rebel. Now, you're going to see what you wanted to see. Just some
advice. The next kids, just don't do that. Instead of picking them up,
taking them to a Boys & Girls Club or taking them to the police
station, show them what you guys do. What's important, what's bad. That's
what you guys should do, not poking us and searching us and taking off our
shoes."


It's embarrassing for people or neighbors to see you. Even when cops come
to your door and knock and say, "What do you have in your pockets?" I will
say, "Excuse me? I mean, I'm in my house." He will say, "I know. You're
just a person I like to mess with."


Anita: You said there were three things. So one is the cops picking on you.


Ruben: One is the cops. The second, it could be the environment you grew up
with. For example, when I was in LA around 59th Street, that's where I
picked up the little things that I knew when I was already 14, which was
when I went to juvenile hall. The third thing-


Anita: What do you mean you picked up? The neighborhood? Explain a little
more.


Ruben: Well, I mean, look in LA in 83rd St. from Vermont in 59th all the
way to 96th St., there was problems in between African American kids and
Mexican kids. They didn't like us because we were not American. So all of
that, it actually starts making us say, "Hey, I can fight. I can hit you,
just seeing what you do." So, you start growing some type of anger towards
the streets and reveal another person. Right away, you actually snap and
start doing things you're not used to. You start losing fear. Some people,
well actually, I had a friend, he stabbed another kid, and they were both
14. I didn't have the guts to do that. Well when I saw that, I said, "Man,
it looks easy. That guy that bugs me might need that."


Ruben: So, those are the ideas that you start getting. The other kids, or
other little gang members, see that, so that's going to pull you towards
them, "Hey, come here. This is where you belong. We are your family." I
always said, "It's dumb to say I got in the neighborhood because my family,
they didn't love me."


Ruben: I mean, I'm going to tell you one thing. My mom used to hit me with
the cable from, I don't know if you remember the old radios, with those
cables because she didn't want me on the streets. When I grew up, I told
her, "Every hit that you gave me, it actually made me a little bit stronger
on the streets." So when somebody will hit me, it wouldn't even hurt. So,
you start growing that anger, that anger, that anger, and you get an
attitude. That's when, and you actually join a gang. When they see that you
are already ready for that.


Anita: Is that the third thing?


Ruben: Third? Yeah, the third thing, it will be parents. Parents push you
to do that.


Anita: How do they do it?


Ruben: There's parents, or well at least Mexican parents, they're real
strict. My grandfather was really strict. My mom was really strict, but
they didn't push me to be a gang member. My friends, their families would
kick them out when they were 13. So, what do we do as their friends? "Hey,
come here, man. You can come and sleep in my house," and that will be a
group of gang members.


Anita: Why do they kick them out?


Ruben: Mexican parents are tough. They actually, if you don't want to learn
the good way, "All right, go to the streets and learn the hard way." They
might care for you, they might love you, but some of them are tough. Too
tough. My mom was tough, but she never kicked me out. She actually, when I
left the house, she went out there with a piece of broom looking for me.


Anita: Piece of broom?


Ruben: Yeah. She was like, "You better go home," but she wouldn't hit me.
She will hit my friends. She would tell them that I wasn't their friend and
that I didn't want to be a gang member, "Stay away from him." My friends
were laughing, saying, "Man, your mom is crazy. Why did she come and hit
us?" I said, "I don't know."


Anita: So if you were asked, "How can we prevent this from happening so
that Mexican kids or Central American kids don't join gangs?" What would
you say?


Ruben: Well, there's different things. I mean, look, before I joined a
gang, I was a great soccer player. I used to play for the city. There were
actually providers with some type of income, and since we were the good
students, and we had good grades-


Ruben: ... we actually qualified for that. I used to play for the city and
the soccer team, and I was doing good until the streets started calling me.
Actually, we feel like the streets call us.


Anita: So, you're saying that if there are other things to do?


Ruben: There's other things to do. Look, I used to stay busy. I used to go
to Boys & Girls Club right after school, stay there until 7, go home,
do my homework, shower, and sleep. When my membership from Boys & Girls
Clubs ended, my parents didn't have the income to do it. That's when I was
like, "So, now what do I do? Let me go to that park and play with those
guys."


Ruben: Not knowing that they were already affiliated with gangs, and that's
how everything starts involving it, "Oh, all right. Oh, no. I don't want to
do that. Here, man, it's okay. All right, just a little bit."


Anita: So, you think that if your membership hadn't expired, you probably
might have been different?


Ruben: Yeah, it actually would have, because I was the type of kid that I
will go to the police station. I already had probation for something from
school. I think it was from ditching school. I ditched like three times and
they put me on probation. My mom didn't want me to go to the house, so they
put me on probation for a year. My probation officer was actually the
coolest guy. He would take me fishing. He would take me to little events.
The greatest one was going to see the Lakers. he took me there. He was the
first one that took me there, and I enjoyed it. When he retired, well I
didn't have him, I didn't have the Boys & Girls Club, so what did I
have? The streets. So, that's what you turn to.




Anita: Tell me about the tattoo on your arm.


Ruben: It's a portrait of one of my elementary friends. We grew up
together.


Ruben: We were like brothers, inseparable. Wherever he went, I went.
Wherever I went, he went. They arrested us for, supposedly, a strong armed
robbery, which we never did. Since I had already been in juvenile hall, I
ended up taking the blame so he can come out because his mom kept crying.
"Oh, my son, I don't want him to go to jail." I took the blame for both of
us, and he comes out a month after he actually gets killed in front of his
house.


Anita: By?


Ruben: By a drive by, a rival gang. Everything changed for me right there.
It actually went insane for a minute. I thought everybody was against me
and I didn't really trust anybody until after. He was just a really cool
friend. Abraham, Abraham Rodriguez.


Anita: Were you in jail at this time?


Ruben: Yeah, I was in jail at the time when he got killed. So it was hard,
but you have to get through it. Some things, you have to be strong in front
of people. When you're alone, maybe bring out that little sadness in you.
Me and him were inseparable. Even his mom would say, "You guys are
brothers, but from different mothers."


Anita: How old were you when this happened?


Ruben: I was 15, 15 and a half.


Anita: Just a kid?


Ruben: Yeah. We were actually just kids. The crazy thing is that when he
got shot, he got shot, and he stayed alive until his mom got there. He
actually got to say his goodbyes, but he maintained himself alive until she
got there. I didn't get to see him. When I came out, I just went to go see
him at the cemetery, but it's sad to lose somebody close.


Anita: So how did kids separate into rival gangs?


Ruben: There was actually a group of 15 kids. We all grew up together.
First through sixth grade we all went to Elementary. We all went to the
same middle school, but by the time we hit middle school, we happened to
come from different neighborhoods in the same area in the southeast of LA
and in one side we were all enemies, but in the other side we try to keep
that friendship of where we can have little reunions and no think about
what was happening in the streets. And no think about how a part of my
neighborhood went and killed one of them. That was off for that little
meeting. It was just us, see how we were doing. Our kids, our wives. Have
some type of good time and memories from when we were in first, second,
third, whatever you can remember. We'll bring it up and laugh, have a
little picnic, but leave all those problems to the side. We'll never bring
them there.


Okay. My neighborhood had to respect it, and then their neighbor would have
to respect it. We will never do a meeting in either one of our
neighborhoods. We will always go to, I don't know if you guys ever heard,
in winter, there's a park called, well there's Whittier Narrows, but
there's another one where there's a Lake Santa Fe down. That's a big park
where you can actually have a picnic, play volleyball.


Anita: Santa Fe down? Like down?


Ruben: Like down. And that was our thing to do every year. Every 4th of
July we all get together, bring firecrackers, and do the little things that
we like to do. We tried to keep it like that as long as we could, we never
let a neighborhood get in between it. Even though they did try it, we never
let it get in between. Even them, they had brothers who were like, the
younger was from this neighborhood, and the older was from another
neighborhood, so they had to respect it. When the peace treaty came around,
it was a tough time because we were going through a tough time. We had
what's called the green light, where anybody could just come and shoot at
your neighborhood. Anybody. It doesn't matter who it was, and we had that
for 13 years. It came off in 2004, so it was rough. But the ones that we
survived, there's only five of us out of 15.


Anita: Only five of you out of 15 survived?


Ruben: It's kind of sad, but the ones that we made it, we look back and
say, "Damn. We should've made a meeting about changing our life, not
talking about what we do." Things that a lot of people don't know. That's
the anger that some people do have. I don't have no anger, I've just got
memories. Those are the things that a lot of people don't know how to
handle.


Anita: So how has your life changed after being deported?


Ruben: Yeah, actually, we're in Mexico, I'm seeing a way to do a life that
I want to do. Maybe I cannot go to school and graduate from some type of
career, but I can work and be free. I can walk anywhere I want. I don't
have to watch my back and say, "What neighborhood am I in?". The only thing
in Mexico is at night, yeah, it's a little dangerous. Depends on the area
you're in, but you don't have to worry about other gang members trying to
shoot you or looking for you. I had an experience where we were buying
groceries and four people walked in the store, the store was called Chia.
They walked up to me, put the gun to my head and said, "Is that your mom
right there behind you?" And I said "Yes, she is." "Well, you better thank
her, because she just gave you life again."


Anita: Did you ever have the idea of joining another gang in Mexico?


Ruben: No. Actually, if you're going to come over here and do the same
thing you were doing over there, I think you would be wrong. A lot of
people say, "Oh, they deported me. That's messed up. And the new
president..." It's not that. Look if you basically see it in a good way.
All right, let me see what I can do. Okay, if I can become a manager here,
I can get paid good. I can have my car, I could probably buy an apartment
and I can live free. But other people don't see it like that. They come
over here, and they want to start fighting with people, or try to
intimidate the people from the area, and I don't think that's good.


Ruben: Instead of intimidating them, show them what you can do. "Oh, my
bathroom is messed up. It's leaking.", "Hey, I can fix it.", stuff like
that. I worked with my dad a lot of times. Trust me, I could do that upside
down. But a lot of these guys don't see it that way, and you've got to put
it in them. I try to tell them, "I'm going to give you a little bit of
line, it's to you if you can get it. Because people here, they judge you by
how you look, not by what you want, and that's what you've got to change.


Anita: How do you change that if you look the way you look?


Ruben: I did. People around here, if we walk around, you'll see people
saying "Hi" to me. "Hey, hi Ruben" How have you been? You all right?" They
offer me food. I don't know if I look like I haven't eaten, but they'll be
like, "Hey, are you hungry?" And they've got little taquitos puesto or
tortas, and they see you, and they already know that if they've seen you, I
used to go in and sweep their little spot. They will be like, "No, no".
Look, I'll be like, if you sell food, your place has to be clean, because
if I walk by and you have all kinds of trash and you're selling burritos,
I'd be like "Nah, I would rather get that hot dog from the 7-11", but if
you have it clean, people will be like, "Oh it's a clean spot. Let me sit
down right here and eat. Let's see how good it is."


Ruben: And that's how I started getting these people to know me or like me,
because they would say, "Why don't you guys go back to where you're from?"
and I'll look back and say "I'm from Mexico. I just didn't grow up here." I
show them that I'm a different person, not what they thought I was at
first, because they will see me and they will move to the side so I can
walk by, and I would ask ladies, "Why do you move? If I'm giving you the
way for you to walk, out of respect, why do you move to the side? I'm not
going to take your stuff." On the other hand, I will probably even help you
out if anything is happening to you. So that's what these people are
seeing, and with me, they're nice people and they have looked for many ways
to help me out.


Ruben: Not money-wise, but they will be like, "Look, if you help me do
this, I'll pay you for it. I know you know how to do it." They used to get
other people to fix their stuff, and now they call me. They will be like,
"Hey Ruben, I got this problem. Can you come and see it?" "Yeah, I'll be
there right now." That's what we have to do, not get them more against us.
Show them that we care for them, too. If we're going to be here, it's the
same community we're going to defend. People robbing, people stealing,
doing bad stuff, we get along with them, we get really involved with the
environment right now with the same people.


Anita: How hard is it to convince others to follow your path?


Ruben: It's hard. It's hard. Depends on what kind of ideas they have when
they got here. A lot of these guys think, "Oh, I'm a gang member. If I just
walk up to them and look at them all crazy, they're going to give me
something." and that's not the way to do it. I'd rather be like, "Hey man,
you got 5 pesos I can borrow? I'll give them to you later on." People will
be like "Nah, I don't think you'll give them to me." I work right here.
They start to get to know you, they start giving you a little bit of trust.
Like the guy in the bathroom, he leaves me right there sitting down,
charging people, sitting there watching TV, while he goes and does
something else. He comes back, and I have never seen him counting his
money.


Ruben: I didn't even know he had a camera, but he was like, "I seen you on
the camera, and I don't see you grabbing anything else but grabbing your
stuff." And he goes, "I never seen you taking money. I never see you not
even eating the chocolate without asking me. So why should I ask you how
much did you make?" No, he just comes and be like, "Hey, thanks man. Are
you hungry? Do you need anything?" He'll give you money, and on the side
he'll buy you something to eat. Me, I will say, "No man, you don't have to
give me nothing. I'm not asking you for nothing. I'm not asking you to pay
me. All I'm asking is just to get to know me. You think I'm cool or the
nice person that you don't think I was, well that's all I want to earn."
These people's respect, you know? So he can see me like them. No quiero que
me vean diferente (I don’t want to be seen differently), you know?


Anita: Do people, others who don't think like that though, the ones who
think they can come here and just act tough. How do you get through to
them? How do you persuade them that there's another way?


Ruben: Why should I have to show them the difference? I have taken walks
with them and these are the guys that tell me, "I know everybody here. I
know what I'm doing. Nothing's going to happen to me." I walk with them and
they see when everybody's like, "Hey, how have you been? Where have you
been? Would you like to come in? Stay here for a minute. Are you Working?
Can I help you out in getting you some job?" And they just look at me and
be like, "Why are they interested on helping you?" And that's when I tell
them "That's different between me and you. They're not looking to help you,
because you walk around like you're going to take their wallet. I don't. I
might have the face, but I smile. Good morning. Good afternoon." If they
want to answer, Hey, it's more than appreciated. If not, I mean that's
them. People are different.


And they see it and some people will be like, "Ah, yeah, you're nice." And
I say "No, it's not because I'm nice. Show them who you are, who you really
are, not who you were in the neighborhood. The neighborhood is done, gone,
past."


Anita: So you can get that neighborhood out of your blood, then?


Ruben: It's always going to be in your heart. You're always going to have
that attitude. But to me, I only use it when it's needed. Somebody comes,
tries to show me he's tougher or anything, I'm not going to fight right
away with them. I'll be like, "Hey, look, is there a way that we can solve
this? Because fighting is not going to solve it. It's going to make it
worse, but if you're still wanting to fight, I mean, boy, I'm not going to
back down, but let's try to tuck it, tuck it up. Explain to me what it is
that you're feeling. How do you feel that I disrespected you? And what did
I say that you didn't like? Then I can explain to you why I said it."
There's people that don't think. They just act.


Anita: Do you think you could have changed If you hadn't been deported?


Ruben: I haven't really changed. I had a job. I worked at my job for five
years. Worked with helicopter parts from the government. The government
people that used to come, they liked me.


Anita: So you had left the gangs.


Ruben: I did, but then still sometimes you'd run into people that they
already know you, that you didn't know they knew you. They were still
looking for you for things you did when you were like 14 or 15 so that's
when you react and say, "Hey, wait a minute, I'm a gang member too." I
don't forget. But if anybody, nobody is still looking for trouble or
anything like that, you are actually able to control that. You are actually
able to do something right instead of just thinking, "Well I'll just shoot
them and it will end." No. We're humans. We just talk it out.


Ruben: Now those that come here, I try to tell them. I try to give them
knowledge that people here are different. People that are 60 and up, they
don't like us. Some of them are grouchy when you say, "Hey, buenas tardes",
they look at you like "What's good about?" but they have to get to like
you. There's a lady right here who has been living 50 years. She was like,
"You're the first-" she calls us cholos- "You're the first cholo that I
actually can say, Hey, that guy's nice." She tells me, "Hey, can you clean
up my garden?" I clean it up, put water on it, and she's happy, and she'll
say "How come you never charge us for what you do for us?"


Anita: About the word "cholo"?


Ruben: Gangster.


Anita: That’s the meaning?


Ruben: Yeah. You about hit it. You've got the gold teeth, you got the
little walk, you're a cholo.


Anita: Is it like your mark?


Ruben: So that's the things you got to change from them. They used to call
me "cholo", a lot of them. Now they call me Ruben. Finally, after like a
month, they will be like "What's your name? I don't want to be calling you
"cholo". What's your real name?" "Ruben." "Oh, okay." Now they call me
Ruben. I can go and have a talk with them, laugh, and that's all around
here. When I lived in Estado de Mexico, it was the same thing. My
neighbors, I would talk to them, "Good morning". I would sweep the whole
sidewalk all the way to the corner and people would be like, "Why you
sweeping in front of my house?" I'd be like, "I don't know. I felt like it,
so I just swept the whole street. Is there a problem? I'll put your trash
back." But they started liking it, and they got used to it, too, like
"Ruben will clean''.


Ruben: Here too, there was a lot of leaves and stuff, but I would do that
because why, all those leaves they actually go down the drain. So when it
rains that whole street will get flooded. I used to pay this guy that
walked around asking for people that wanted the drain to be cleaned. I paid
him 180 pesos and he would clean both of them, so we can have water flowing
if it rains. If we wouldn't clean it and it would start raining, all that
would come back up inside of your house, because the drains are actually
connected to your house so if anything comes back, your patio will get
flooded.


Anita: You gave a service, then.


Ruben: So I didn't like this, and what I did is I started getting this guy
to clean them. I would sweep the street and I would fix it, and that's what
I would tell them. "You guys cry every time these get flooded, but you guys
never do nothing to fix it. Something like sweeps. Have that guy clean it
up so the water can just flow" Now when I go back, they say they want me
back in that block. It's too far.


Just things you got to see. If you don't see it, you can't change it. A lot
of these people don't see it. They just, "I'm from LA", and it's good to be
like that. I was like that, but I'm a different guy. I'm already older.
Things change.


Anita: Thank you so much.